Japanese Baseball Jerseys?

Is the problem with the Yakyu Shop sticker price shock? Well, that's what these things cost in Japan. Rediculous, yes, but that's what licensed goods cost. Just compare prices with the Dragons' Official Shop. A number jersey is 7,350 yen (about USD 67.00), a T-shirt is 3,000 yen (about USD 28.00). You can use a U.S. credit card, but I don't know if they'll ship overseas (unlikely).

I've heard of an establishment that sold unauthorized Pro Yakyu goods. Because they don't license the logos they're much cheaper, but they're also illegal. So I cannot recommend such an option.

Do you know how to get this site in English?

A bit off topic, but Ebbets Field Flannels is producing some pretty cool Japanese baseball related jerseys and caps. I like the Fukuoka and Osaka ballcaps best.

Well of course these products appear to be knockoffs, too. I know for a fact that the "Osaka" jerseys are not authentic, (that is, licensed by the Hanshin Tigers), which gives the lie to Ebbets' claim of authenticity.

Reading their home page, Ebbets' claim of authenticity seems to deal more with fabric and construction rather than licensing. But show me where I can buy an "authentic" Nishitetsu Lions jersey, and I'll buy one.

Well they've framed their claims rather ambiguously, don't you think? I think the issue is whether they have, in fact, paid license fees to the holders of the trademarks, which of course they haven't. I don't care how close the jerseys are to the originals - these guys are pirates and are acting illegally.

- I think the issue is whether they have, in fact, paid license fees to the holders of the trademarks, which of course they haven't. I don't care how close the jerseys are to the originals - these guys are pirates and are acting illegally.

Ebbetts tends to focuses on historical teams - teams that no longer exist, like past teams from the US negro and minor leagues. Perhaps the Hiroshima Carp, Nishitetsu Lions, Osaka Tigers, and Tokyo Giants are fair game because those team names no longer exist technically?

I don't claim to be an expert on merchandising law. Just thought others might share my interest in the new hats and jerseys.

- Perhaps the Hiroshima Carp, Nishitetsu Lions, Osaka Tigers, and Tokyo Giants are fair game because those team names no longer exist technically?

I don't claim to be a master on copyright laws, but I would think that even though the team name and rights would still be owned by the team. Also, the Hiroshima Carp's name for sure is copyrighted.

I am the president of Ebbets Field Flannels, so I thought I would weigh in on the small controversy we seem to have created. Nowhere do we claim these cotton Japanese jerseys are "authentic." We do not represent them as being from any specific year or even use team nicknames. So - to accuse us of not being true to a claim we are not in fact making is a bit unfair. These are "fashion" shirts created from historical elements, some combined, some made up. We are quite capable of making "authentic" wool flannel vintage Japanese jerseys, but this is not what we set out to do in this particular catalog with the Japanese shirts. We do not believe there are any legal impediments to our making these jerseys and caps. If we wish in the future to make exact replicas of actual Japanese team uniforms, we will be sure to seek permission where it is needed.

So Ebbetts has finally come clean. Let's compare what the president of Ebbetts says with the claims made on their website:

President: Nowhere do we claim these cotton Japanese jerseys are "authentic."

Website: "All of the clothing created at Ebbets Field Flannels must meet the three key elements of our core values: Timelessness, Authenticity and Value."

President: We do not represent them as being from any specific year or even use team nicknames.

Website: Product title: "1935 Tokyo Kyojin (Giants) Jacket". Description: "Team History: Tokyo has the distinction of boasting dominant teams throughout the history Japanese baseball. Sadaharu Oh, the most famous Japanese slugger, played in Tokyo."

Comment: Well this certainly mentions a year, and it uses the team nickname. And they've even mentioned Sadaharu Oh. How can this not be a reference to the Yomuri Giants?

Another team history for a Hiroshima jersey: "Having joined the Central League in 1950, Hiroshima played like an expansion team for their first twenty-five years. Famous Hiroshima players: Ryohei Hasegawa, Sachio Kinugasa, Yoshiro Sotokoba, Jitsuo Mizutani and Koji Yamamoto."

Comment: Here they've specifically mentioned the Central League, and again famous Hiroshima Carp players. They're obviously trying to pass this off as an official jersey from the Hiroshima Carp.

President: We do not believe there are any legal impediments to our making these jerseys and caps.

Comment: Apart from the other violations I've pointed out, the cap they list for "Osaka" features the Tiger graphic from the Hanshin Tigers logo. This is a clear violation of the intellectual property rights of the Hanshin Tigers, and thus illegal.

The issue here would be "passing off." Whether the products, even though they do not violate copyright, by their representation resemble the original designs enough to cause people to buy them in the mistaken belief that they are linked to the originals. Whilst this is an offence under European copyright law I do not know if it is so with American copyright law.

Sorry, Christopher - copyright has nothing to do with it. It's a clear case of trademark infringement. And trademark law applies internationally by way of the various trade treaties. If the United States wants to remain in the World Trade Organization (WTO), there's no law it can pass that undermines intellectual property rights.

Now let's consider what this company has done with the "Osaka" cap for example - the Tiger they use has been lifted directly from the Hanshin Tigers logo. It even features the fire coming out of the Tiger's mouth. Are you telling us that this somehow does not infringe on the intellectual property rights of the Hanshin Tigers?

It might be a different story if they used a generic Tiger graphic along with the Osaka name, but they haven't. And what they're doing is clearly illegal. Whether the Hanshin Tigers are willing to enforce their rights is another matter, and they may feel it's not worth their while to go after Ebbetts (something the president of Ebbetts is no doubt banking on). But they certainly have a case if they wanted to pursue it.

Just a quick clarification - it is a copyright issue because trademarks are copyrighted and that area of the law deals with such issues.

Copyright and trademarks are different.

Copyright deals with the written word; trademarks relate to logos and goods that are traded. This is clearly trademark-related.

Just to follow up on my previous post, the US Patent and Trademark Office website provides a clear definition of a trademark and how if differs from copyright. [Link]

Many thanks for that clarification. Does U.S. law cover passing off?

- Many thanks for that clarification. Does U.S. law cover passing off?

Not as such. But there are certainly laws against deceptive trade practice, including making false statements in advertising, as well as what's called "palming off," which is similar to the UK concept of passing off.

Leaving aside the trademark issue, at the very least Ebbetts is probably in violation of the Federal Trade Commission Act (which covers advertising on the Internet as well as in the traditional media), and in theory customers who have bought their products may be able to seek legal redress under the Lanham Act.

I don't pretend to know everything about this area of the law. The point is, though, that there are U.S. laws which seek to prevent the kind of behavior Ebbetts is engaging in. Whether this is serious enough to attract the attention of the FTC is completely another matter, and I suspect Ebbetts will get away with it - especially if we keep giving them free publicity like this on this site.

The question is, does the team in question here (Hanshin) even know about the trademark infringements happening to their trademarked logo? If they did know this, then this case would likely be in some kind of court right now.

- I am the president of Ebbets Field Flannels, so I thought I would weigh in on the small controversy we seem to have created. Nowhere do we claim these cotton Japanese jerseys are "authentic." We do not represent them as being from any specific year or even use team nicknames. So - to accuse us of not being true to a claim we are not in fact making is a bit unfair. These are "fashion" shirts created from historical elements, some combined, some made up. We are quite capable of making "authentic" wool flannel vintage Japanese jerseys, but this is not what we set out to do in this particular catalog with the Japanese shirts. We do not believe there are any legal impediments to our making these jerseys and caps. If we wish in the future to make exact replicas of actual Japanese team uniforms, we will be sure to seek permission where it is needed.

Gentlemen, I'm not here to bury Ceasar but to praise him. I e-mailed Ebbets Field Flannels customer service asking them from what year the "Tokyo Giants" cap came from and I was told "1950's." Mr. Jerry Cohen has said that these are "fashion" shirts and not "official," fine!

EFF (for short) used to make items from every defunct baseball team in the U.S., and these were actual replicas from the real clothes people sent in after being noticed for making replica Seattle Rainiers/Angels clothing for his enjoyment and other fans who were disenchanted by the pre-Ichiro M's, but had great hopes for a young buck nicknamed Ken "the Kid" or simply "Junior." Pretty soon even David Letterman and several rap stars started wearing his gear. Even MLB got into the act by dressing their teams (minor/major) in EFF gear in some markets, especially the Negro Leagues.

But then somehow, these same issues were raised and each individual entity started to take back their "trademarked" names and come out with very ugly pieces, lower priced crap compared to the EFF stuff. EFF lost steam and are joined with Stall and Dean and who knows what they make now?

I saw the EFF site after seeing this thread. To the original topic, the "Tokyo Giants" jersey looks like a Flyers' jersey, so when the Flyers come back as the "Eagles" did, you have an EFF generic "Tokyo" jersey you can wear to either game. And as an added bonus, the interlocking "TG" on the left sleeve (and the cap) looks like the old PCL Tacoma Giants team.

The stuff on eBay, what the F^*% teams are those? Industrial, Eastern, Cosmos, High School, Indy Leagues? Those I'm suspect of.

I don't know if Ebbets Field is acting illegally, but I am pretty sure no one else here does either. For all we know, they may have paid license fees to the Japanese leagues. Or they may not be required to. If they aren't doing business in Japan, and the team doesn't own the rights to that name and likeness in the US, Ebbet's Field may be conducting legitimate business.

Anyway, the prices on Yakyu Shop don't seem that outrageous. Ever try to buy an authentic MLB jersey on MLB.com?

The Yakyu Shop has been very helpful with my inquiries about their products, and their prices seem more than fair, especially compared to similar American team apparel available elsewhere. They are also up front about the variety of quality you can find from officially licensed products, which is nice. There's nothing worse than buying something online only to find out it is made from inferior materials when it arrives.

I spoke with the fine folks at Yakyu Shop about ordering something for me off the Hiroshima Carp web page, and as I recall they said they could do that for a 10% surcharge plus shipping and handling costs. (Check with them on that first if you are interested.)

The problem, as I think Westbay-san noted, is that licensed goods on Japanese team web sites are almost prohibitively expensive. I wanted a Hiroshima Carp jersey I saw on their site, only to discover it cost roughly $300 USD. Ouch! That's a bit much for me to pay for a shirt, even if it is a very nice, authentic jersey. (With a wicked burning baseball on the sleeve!)

Price isn't my problem - it's sizes. I would order a Carp jersey from Yakyu Shop in a heartbeat - if only they could get their hands on something along the lines of an American XL size. This is my major problem finding Japanese jerseys - anything authentic usually comes in a smaller size range than American shirt sizes, leaving me with limited options. And the days of me fitting into an American size Medium are, alas, long gone.

I shall stay on the lookout. The Ebbetts Field replica jerseys are intriguing, but I, too, wonder at the legitimacy of their logo rights. Part of buying a jersy in support of the Carp would, I would hope, mean they earn a bit of money off my purchase.

Those Ebbets Field jerseys are pretty sweet, pirated or not. I want an Osaka one.

What I really want is a nice Hanshin 44 Cecil Fielder jersey, but the Yakyu shop only has the mesh, half button-down style. Not bad for $50, but I'd gladly pay a bit more for a nicer shirt. I ordered a Tigers cap from them, btw, and had no problems.

Yes, does anybody know where you can buy a Hanshin happi or jersey in a size larger than LL or "free size"? I doubt those sizes fit Irabu. Is there a place that will custom make such things? Yoroshiku.

It's not really fair to make assumptions based off of what you perceive to be the facts. I spoke to the owner who runs the retail shop in Seattle, and he said that they had to jump through quite a few hoops to get those team licenses from the NPB. Could he be lying? Sure. But it's only fair to give them the benefit of the doubt.

- Could he be lying? Sure. But it's only fair to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Not really. When it isn't proven that the company has the licensing agreement, it plenty fair to say something. Violating copyright agreement is a crime regardless of what people think, and it's a serious issue.

Second, it doesn't matter if the company is doing buisness in the U.S., Europe, Japan, or anywhere, the product is still protected by the country's and world copyright laws. This means that no one can redistrubute material without the permission of the owner.

- I wanted a Hiroshima Carp jersey I saw on their site, only to discover it cost roughly $300 USD.

Also, remember the economy in Japan was changed following the massive collapse of the Nikkei 225 in 1988. This is a major reason for the prices in Japan.

Take a close look at the Ebbets Field Tigers throwback and you'll notice that it is slightly different from the original it's based on. It uses a slightly different typeface and a drop shadow instead of a hard outline. The Tiger head sleeve patch faces the back instead of the front, and all official Tiger jerseys with the tiger head patch had the patch facing forward. There is no closeup of the patch, but I'll bet it differs slightly from any version the Tigers have used.

I don't know if the other Japanese jerseys are similarly different, nor do I know anything about Japanese copyright laws, so I don't know if these slight differences are enough to put Ebbets Field Flannels in the clear.

That's just it, you have no idea. You keep insisting that they are pirate jerseys. How do you know they don't have licenses? I've spoken to the owner who says they do, what is your basis for your statement? What sort of proof are you looking for? A signed contract?

Instead of bashing them on some message board, why not take your concerns directly to the company. It sure is easy to critisize when you're only making assumptions.

- That's just it, you have no idea. You keep insisting that they are pirate jerseys.

I do? All I've ever said is that I want one of the sweet Osaka jerseys.

- How do you know they don't have licenses? I've spoken to the owner who says they do, what is your basis for your statement?

Though the point plainly is that the owner doesn't have the correct copyright rights. Clearly, he doesn't have any rights to distibute, make, or sell these jerseys. The major problem is with the guy's descrpition that the owner had to jump through a few hoops to get the team licenses from the NPB. The NPB isn't in charge of individual team merchandise, the copyrights are held by the teams, unlike MLB.

Also, this is what makes this company a violation of copyright rights. They're pirated jerseys, plain and simple. His explanation that he got the rights from the NPB proves it, as in Japan, the teams deal with respective copyrights, not the league itself.

Second, I'll repeat, it doesn't matter where the company is located, they have to respect copyright laws regardless of the region. This means they can't sell jerseys without the permission of the respective team, they can't sell them either, as it is a violation of copyright laws. If the respective team wanted to, they could send the owner to court. It's like anything else pirated, it's a violation of copyright laws. The jerseys are obviously also different from the original, unique, and legal Hanshin jerseys.

- It sure is easy to critisize when you're only making assumptions.

No it's not. Violating copyright laws is a crime, plain and simple. It doesn't matter what the owner said, because he's plain out wrong. He doesn't have the appropriate copyright laws, or any right at all to distribute, sell, or make these jerseys. The NPB doesn't issue the copyrights, the individual teams does.

Don't make it seem that violating copyright laws isn't a crime. These laws are here for a reason. To protect the creator of the product.

- ... he said that they had to jump through quite a few hoops to get those team licenses from the NPB.

Interesting. Because NPB does not issue team licenses - each team handles its own merchandising. And if he had really obtained the licenses as he says, surely he would have mentioned this as part of his item descriptions. And where's the official NPB logo? Nowhere to be seen. I know for a fact that the Hanshin cap he features is not a licensed product. I can't be 100% certain about the others, but the Hanshin cap is a knockoff for sure.

OK. Let's end the bickering now, children.

I've written to them and asked a number of questions. I'm hoping that this can be cleared up quickly and easilly. Essentially, I said that an explanation of "jumping through hoops with NPB" isn't enough to satisfy those of us who have gone through the process ourselves (or know people who have - I know of at least two, one got frustrated and gave up). I also relayed the flaws in the Tigers' uniform as were pointed out above.

Now, let's give Ebbets a chance to respond to the allogations. If their explanation is still not enough to convince you, then let's discuss what it will take.

As a collector and part-time U.S. memorabilia dealer, I buy game-worn major league jerseys of second-line players for less than the MLB/souvenir knockoffs.

The quality of the gamers is superior to the souvenir stand stuff, and their pedigree can be documented. Is it possible to obtain game-worn Japanese jerseys?

Slaphitter, I've obtained several game-used jerseys from Yahoo Auctions; they're a bit more expensive than you'd pay in the US. Even obscure players cost Y10,000 or more, and many sellers ridiculously over-value their stuff, causing it to remain unsold and relisted for months.

The cheapest Japanese game used jersey I've got is from the Buffaloes and was just Y5,000, but is a pullover practice shirt and not nearly as spiffy as the real shirts. The reason I wanted it is that it was worn by one of the BP pitchers/staffers and has three digits on the back! (#113) Useless to people who want player-worn stuff, but I love them.

Slaphitter, I found your post interesting and I was wondering whre you buy those game-used jerseys that you were talking about? I would like to buy some game-used MLB or NPB jerseys, but they sure are hard to find.

Also, is it just me, or do the Hanshin Tigers look 100 times better with yellow in their home uniforms? They should make those throwback unis their permanent home uniforms.

MLB jerseys are often found on eBay. Teams sometimes sell them at winter fan fest weekends, and equipment dealers offer them in SCD (Sports Collectors Digest) ads. Auctions are another source of material.

Unless you know your jerseys, I would suggest sticking with shirts (especially those worn by better players) that have year tags and a certificate of authenticity. Some teams (Marlins, Phillies, and Astros, to name three) don't tag their jerseys. The Yankees and Tigers are probably the scarcest items in the jersey market.

I wouldn't worry too much about an untagged, common $80 jersey if you're talking about a .204 hitter or a mop-up reliever. There's no money to be made in faking jerseys of marginal players. Let me know if you have any other questions.

Slaphitter,

Thank you very much for the thorough reply. I admit I don't know much about the game-used jersey market, but I would like to collect some just for fun. I'm just wary of con artists that are out there passing off self-stitched jerseys as "game-worn." I'll start looking on eBay for some jerseys. Thanks again!